"Therapist (T): So the therapist must first be changed in order to bring change into the session?

"Healer (H): That is a nice way of putting it. Although there is more to it than that, you are already reminding me to change. This is why I sing or dance before I talk with someone about the most important matters of change and transformation. I must change myself from being an everyday dullard into being a healer. I must cross the bridge into healing before my work can begin. This is the shaman's true journey, not some daydream that inflates the ego's narrative fantasies. The journey from therapist to healer requires awakening the heart so that it can rise and expand. When this takes place, mind becomes a small part inside the heart. This is when circular therapeutics — the heart of healing — is voiced.

"T: Is it correct to say that the mind must be inside the heart rather than having our mind frame our heartfelt feelings?

"H: Yes, the heart must rise above the head, and the latter must become a servant to the heart. Otherwise, our mind just narrates about heart, wisdom, freedom, love, liberation, and all the other words that are just words when delivered by a clever mind. These words must become charged metaphors that evoke complexities of relationship and interaction when they are sung by the heart. Let the heart sing.

"T: If therapy is an art, what is healing?

"H: Healing is the art of therapy, the embodied processes of change that transform lives. Do not contextualize art inside therapy. Otherwise art, whether it be dance, music, or painting, serves the intentionality of a therapy model. It too easily becomes trivial and rarely rises to healing. I prefer seeing therapy inside the frame of art. There is no need to have art domesticated by therapy. Art is healing. The constraints of therapy are more likely to hinder than enhance its potency.

"T: Why not place healing inside art?

"H: Yes, let's keep therapy inside healing, and both inside art. Should art be inside spirituality? What do you think?

"T: No! Spirituality, as you taught me, is too easily corrupted as another interpretive game. We want our work to be spirited, not spiritual. The same is true for religion. We want to avoid the interpretivity of religion and hunt for the transformative religious experiences of the spirit that can inspire us to be part of the circular interactivity of healing.

"H: This is very important. Perhaps this is why wise elders rarely talk about their spiritual experiences, because doing so too easily tempts others to concretize them as lessons, explanatory stories, or messages from beyond.

"T: The same is true for great writers. Faulkner, Marquez, and Stein do not write in order for their works to be interpreted. Nothing is more irritating to an artist than some social theorist or therapist claiming that the artist's work exemplifies their ideas. If a narrative therapist claims that magical realism holds evidential support for a theory of liberation, an artist may say, 'Stop colonizing my prose to serve your interpretations.' Let's agree that therapy is an art and say no more."