On this interview with Michael Toms of New Dimensions, Robert Fuller, a physicist and president emeritus of Oberlin College, challenges us to honor the different cycles of life during which we are either somebody or nobody. While most of the time we struggle to achieve recognition, status, and power, the creative periods usually occur when we are between things or just taking time off.

Fuller, the board chairman of the nonprofit global corporation InterNews, launches a full-scale attack on rankism in our culture from homes to offices, schools, and politics. The obsession with being somebody often leads to egregious forms of domination and control over others. It can also result in being a statue frozen in time.

While listening to Fuller's paean to being a nobody, I was reminded of the Little Brothers of Jesus who were always in training to be people of no importance, or what Zen Buddhists call "the person of no rank." Give yourself and everybody around you a break. Celebrate your nobodyness every once in a while!